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Ask them for Proof that Molecules-To-Man Evolution Actually Happened

 

This page is provided to answer a specific question, but don't get tied up in detail and forget where you are going. You get past the questions/attacks so you can proclaim the Gospel. It is the proclamation of the Gospel, not argumentation, that transforms minds. See Give Them the Gospel. You may want to also check out: The real controversy is at the root of the thinking of the Evolutionist and the follower of Christ.

"When evolution is seen as a storytelling game rather than a serious attempt at scientific explanation, it suddenly makes sense."

So much effort is made to show that evolution is a possibility.  The assumption is that if it is possible it happened.  However, not only would it be impossible, but if it were possible, it would still be a lie.  God says that He created everything in six days.  Alternate stories are lies.  Every argument against creation is based on hot air. It is based on, "I just made this up."

This example contains many of the types of things you may hear.  It was taken from snippets of many conversations. Much of the condescension and foul language has been removed, and rarely do you have anyone who does not try to change the subject when asked to reveal why they believe in their most basic presuppositions. The nature of presuppositions is that people believe them without proof because they want them to be true. The nature of revelation is that it is a direct encounter with the living God.

Keep in mind that fabricated stories (evolutionism, old-Earthism, big-bangism, bibilcal-erroism, etc.) that are based on arbitrary assumptions (naturalism, materialism, uniformitarianism) and rationalizations is not science. It is fabrication. It is actually ridiculous, yet that's what kids are learning in schools with tax-payer money footing the bill.

Ministry is not an argument based on a premise of hot air. Ministry is the proclamation of the Person of the Living Christ. We ought to speak and write by the Holy Spirit so that our words are infused with the Holy Spirit. It is the Person of Christ Who draws people to Himself. Here is an example using the concept of Naturalism.  The same would apply for materialism.  Note that actual wranglings of Atheists are generally very cluttered with name calling, accusations, and many other distractions.  They don't think quite as neatly as we have portrayed them here, so you have to kind of sort through the flimflam and decide what you are going to respond to.  If you get right to their presuppositions and the circular reasoning, arguments from ignorance, and declarations of universal negatives that they use to brace up their presuppositions, you are better off.

Evolution is fact. Only an idiot believes in creation.

God speaks to His people and He tells us that He created all things. What evidence do you have that molecules-to-man evolution actually happened? Molecules-to-man evolution would require massive amounts of information to be added to the gene at every stage. Do you even have a mechanism by which information could be added to the gene? (some caveats about hearing God's Voice)

We have fossils. We can explain fossils using the evolution model. Based on these scientific facts, we know that evolution happened.

I'm not interested in models or stories supposing the evolution COULD HAVE HAPPENED. What evidence do you have that molecules-to-man evolution ACTUALLY HAPPENED? Molecules-to-man evolution would require massive amounts of information to be added to the gene at every stage. Do you even have a mechanism by which information could be added to the gene?

Evolution explains DNA similarities between different species= we are all related. Evolution explains anatomical similarities of animals between different species= we are all related. Evolution explains why fossils line up fittingly together in descending order including with current organisms= we're related.  Adaptation occurs with just about every organism. If creationism is true and the Bible states we live in a fallen world, why would we be able to adapt to it?

Creation also explains DNA similarities, anatomical similarities of animals between different species, because the same God designed us. Fossils don't show evolution in any way. However, the answer given doesn't address the obvious false statements to avoid a "tis so," "tis not." argument. What is the crux. Creation, as God describes it, has no problem with any science. Evolution, as ungodly peopld describe it, has huge problems with science. It's not even possible. And there is no conclusive, varifiable proof that it actually happened. It's a story, a lie, a fabrication.

Evolution is a story. It falls down in many areas of science. There is no way to generate new information, for instance. But even if it were a well-told story, it would still be a story. God reveals that He created everything according to His purpose. I believe Him as He speaks to me. Do you have credible, conclusive evidence-beyond stories that explains a few things-that evolution actually happened and the God didn't create everything?

We can observe evolution every day. There are minor changes, micro-evolution, and these build up to major changes, macro-evolution. Evolution is observed. The reason that we can't directly observe macro-evolution is because the changes occur slowly over time.

Micro-evolution and macro-evolution cause confusion by using a word with a double meaning, evolution. The problem is that those changes that we can observe fall into three categories: rearranging information, removing information, or ruining information. These are the three Rs of evolution.

It's like a train in the Midwest and we are in the Midwest. Even though we can only observe the train moving a short distance, we know that it will continue until it reaches California. So it is with evolution.  You can't see the whole thing, but you can see the small changes that occur.

But the train is going in the wrong direction. The changes would need to be gains in information, not losses. However, we never observe spontaneous generation of information from non-information. Even if there were examples of information being created from non-information, this might provide opportunity for a story like evolution to sound a bit more scientific, but it could not make it true.  Where is the proof that it actually happened?

Information is very complex to describe, so that is a non-issue.

Biological information is not fully understood, but we have some knowledge of what information is, and it is never added by chance. Even if there were examples of information being created from non-information, this might provide opportunity for a story like evolution to sound a bit more scientific, but it could not make it true.  Where is the proof that it actually happened?

We have observed speciation. New species are evolving every day.

A species develops when a group of living things interbreed until information is lost to their genes. That's the loss of information, but you need a gain of information.  Even if there were examples of information being created from non-information, this might provide opportunity for a story like evolution to sound a bit more scientific, but it could not make it true.    Where is the proof that molecules evolved into humans?

Natural selection produces new information, and we can observe that in the present.

Actually, natural selection only selects from the information that is already there. Even if there were examples of information being created from non-information, this might provide opportunity for a story like evolution to sound a bit more scientific, but it could not make it true.    Where is the proof that molecules evolved into humans?

Adaptation is an example of information being added.

Actually adaptation is just another example of a loss of information is every case. However, this is a side issue since even if there were examples of information being created from non-information, this might provide opportunity for a story like evolution to sound a bit more scientific, but it could not make it true.  Where is the proof that molecules evolved into humans?

Mutations cause an increase in information.

Actually, both helpful and hurtful mutations are examples of loss of information. However, this is a side issue since even if there were examples of information being created from non-information, this might provide opportunity for a story like evolution to sound a bit more scientific, but it could not make it true.  Where is the proof that molecules evolved into humans?

Every scientist believes in evolution and they all reject creation. Prove that God created everything.

God speaks through creation and through the Bible and shows us that He created everything in six days relatively recently. The Holy Spirit confirms this to millions of Christians. Many scientists believe in creation and reject evolution, but even if every person on Earth believed in evolution, that would not mean that molecules-to-man evolution ever happened.

The burden of proof is on you, buddy. You need to prove to me that God created everything.

Lord, protect us from picking up the foul spirit of the ungodly person who is attacking Christ.  Those who are attacking Christ are not only deceived, but they are also evil.  However, you are to walk godly in Christ Jesus. The wrath of man doesn't work the righteousness of God. Don't let them take you off the track of challenging their deepest hidden presuppositions.

So, we have determined that there is known way that information might be added by natural processes. God proves to me, and to every person who will receive Him, that His account in the Bible is accurate.  Jesus says, "My sheep hear My Voice," and "Whoever is on the side of Truth listens to Me." But you have still not provided credible evidence that molecules-to-man evolution actually happened.

See: Ask Them for Proof of Naturalism

There is more than enough evidence to show that evolution is fact. We can explain everything that exists without God.

Evolution doesn't yet have a story compatible with real science.  However, if you were able to make up a scientific-sounding lie that could hold up to scrutiny, that would not prove that the lie was true. It would just be an alternate story to the Truth that God tells us. And you have no proof that your story actually happened.

The fossil record proves evolution. We see the changes from one kind of living thing to another.

Actually, the fossil record shows several kinds of living things that are distinct, having wide ability to vary within the information that was created in the original gene. If evolution had actually taken place, we would see millions of transitions smoothly flowing from one kind of living thing to another, but we don't see anything of the kind.

The evidence overwhelmingly points to the fact that God really put in a lot of information into living things originally so that we can have so much information to draw from. There is a new science of baraminology that is classifying living things and noting that there is not one tree of life but rather a forest of trees that are disconnected from each other at the roots--just like as if they were created kinds. What a surprise!

What about the lineage of horses? Those certainly show a transition.

They show simple changes within the horse kind. This is not proof of molecules-to-man evolution.  If evolution actually happened, you ought to be able to show proof that it did happen. If it's merely a story, then we would not expect to see conclusive proof.

Look at the beak of the finch that changes it shape and size from year to year.  That is certainly evolution in action.

Those are variations within the existing gene pool. However, this is a side issue since even if there were examples of information being created from non-information, this might provide opportunity for a story like evolution to sound a bit more scientific, but it could not make it true.  Where is the proof that molecules actually evolved into humans?
The way the fossils are only found where we would expect them given millions of years of evolution from the most simple to the most complex--this proves evolution happened.
Actually, the fossils are physical evidence of a great worldwide flood.  They are quite topsy-turvey with the kind of sorting a flood would produce. But even if they had sorted more evenly, that would not be evidence that evolution actually happened.  And it would not be able to compete with the eye-witness testimony of the Creator God. Such a claim on your part would require absolute proof that it happened.
Ha! You don't even understand science.  Science doesn't give absolute proof of anything, only probabilities.
Then why be so dogmatic and ignore the God Who Created you and what He says? Now we have admitted that science cannot possibly give definite answers to historical questions, and it really can't even give definite answers to probabilities since historical questions always involve many assumptions.  If you change the assumptions, you change the answers.

There is a ton of evidence in this world that denies the creation story and supports a natural way of origins.

Really? Then please give the credible, conclusive evidence (beyond made-up stories, since creation explains scientific observation better than evolution and God tells us that He created all things) that evolution actually happened and the God didn't create everything? Show us the clear, indisputable evidence that evolution ACTUALLY HAPPENED--not that it might have possibly happened.

Vaccines are now developed using technology based on what we know about evolution. Turbine blades and wings are now developed using evolutionary design methods, based on evolution in nature.

Unconvincing. Evo-stories may be used like a paradigm or analogy. However, in those cases, a ‘design’ explanation would achieve the same end. Many inventions come by copying God's designs, but that's creation and design evidence, not evo. Please give the credible, conclusive evidence (beyond made-up stories, since creation explains scientific observation better than evolution and God tells us that He created all things) that molecules-to-man? evo ACTUALLY HAPPENED & that God DIDN'T create.

Why do you say "Happened" - you make it sound like Evolution only happened years ago. You do understand that evolution happens all the time and *everything* is still evolving?  (For the creatures that seem? to be 'living' dinosaurs that look like they haven't evolved just means that the environment their population lives in hasn't been subjected to any major changes and therefore any mutations in that population haven't been beneficial)

Every change we observe goes in the wrong direction. Huge amounts of new, innovative information would have be produced for each supposed step in imagined m2m evo, but info is only lost. We also know by revelation that m2m evo never happened.

Please give the credible, conclusive evidence (beyond made-up stories, since creation explains scientific observation better than evolution and God tells us that He created? all things) that molecules-to-man evo ACTUALLY HAPPENED & that God DIDN'T create.

I don't think scientists have conclusive evidence yet of what you are demanding. Scientists admit they don't have all the answers, but so far they have accomplished alot. Now, I can also? demand that you give conclusive evidence of God and creationism, but without referring to the Bible. 1) Define God in a comprehensible manner so I can understand what is being described. 2) Point out where God is so I will be able to acknowledge and verify his existence. These two things are a good start.

There is absolute, sure evidence that Christ leads and guides on an ongoing basis, for me and for millions of His followers. As with science, we are progressing slowly toward God's purpose in all of this. I see a lot that makes evolution scientifically impossible, and not much to support it. The word, yet, in the first? sentence, implies that they will one day find it, however, that would be false prophecy. They will not, because God reveals that He created everything.

What's this absolute, sure evidence that Christ leads and guides on an ongoing basis? Please explain. I don't think you look at things the way scientists do. Instead, you have a predisposition towards Christianity and creationism, therefore you reject certain scientific theories (evolution) and you credit your religion for things that scientists may not have answers for yet, such as the origin of life and the universe.

Most scientists believe in the story of evolution, while I don't accept stories with no proof. Most scientists used to believe that the Sun went around the Earth daily. All scientists have presuppositions and worldviews (false realities) as bias. Revelation is not a presupposition or worldview.

Christ reveals Himself to whoever comes to Him in humility, submission, respect, and sincerity. Whoever seeks Him finds Him, even me. Anyone can verify this, even you. Revelation is the only thing that can be absolute, though only partial.

So you accept that evolution is a good way of designing things? And you accept that we do use evolution based? design and development in various industries? You just think nature didn't do it?

The molecules-to-man evo-story has no mechanism for designing anything new. However, God designed everything and we do use His designs in various industries. Millions of followers of Christ know this by revelation from God. Science confirms it. Please give the credible, conclusive evidence (beyond made-up stories, since creation explains scientific observation better than evolution and God tells us that He created all things) that molecules-to-man evo ACTUALLY HAPPENED & that God DIDN'T create.

The intelligent design idea falls flat for several reasons. 1) There is no tangible creator in sight that can be verified in any? way. Only certain religious books claim one or many. 2) Supernaturalism is also unverifiable. 3) Creationism in the Bible; dust to man, rib to woman, immaterial creating the material, etc is very illogical. 4) Intelligent design of things we are familiar with; cars, computers, buildings, etc. restricts free will since designed things are built from the inside out.

1) How do you test that Christ doesn't verify Himself to me and to millions of His followers every day?
2) How do you test to see that I and millions of followers of Christ are not having a supernatural experience?
3) How is it illogical that the Almighty, self-existent God created all??
4) So?
So I take it that you have no credible, conclusive evidence that molecules-to-man evolution ACTUALLY HAPPENED or that God DIDN'T create everything from nothing.

1) How does Christ verify to you?
2) What supernatural things are you experiencing?
3) Because there is no visual or testable evidence that God or any deity exists. As well as other reasons I mentioned previously.
4) I am not a scientist, so no I don't have that evidence for you. Perhaps you could talk to a scientist about that though. As for God creating things from nothing....that doesn't make sense. How can something be created from nothing?

1) Actually, the ungodly also hear His voice but refuse to acknowledge Him.
2) Things like God's daily leading, His peace, His glory, gifts of the Spirit, and spiritual ministries.
3) Circular. With a presupposition of Atheism, God would be illogical, but can you give conclusive, verifiable proof for that God doesn't exist or is your presupposition of Atheism a baseless, arbitrary claim?
4) What would prevent the Almighty God from speaking everything into existence?

 The obvious lack of understanding of basic logic appears to be vital to a belief in evolution. Also, the evo-believer must blindly accept many claims without question. Go to the blogs and read through the comments. They are really comical. However, Christians who compromise the Bible and God's very real presence and personal revelation are just as ridiculous. They get eaten alive.

 

 



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Last updated: Nov, 2013
 
 




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